and Cunard for Blue Ribbon of Atlantic, Reclassification of Older Passenger Ships in Transatlantic Trade Coming, Brochures, Vintage Steamship & Ocean Liner, Immigrant Ships Ephemera, History, Photographs. Escape the Ordinary with Ripleys Brand-New Book! On an energy content basis, this amount was equal to about 10.5 quadrillion British thermal units (Btu) and to about 10.8% of total U.S. energy consumption. Use of coal. RMS Aquitania was a British ocean liner of the Cunard Line in service from 1914 to 1950. This area is a working deck which hosts the Fore mast, a maneuvering capstan, the bell and two cast iron, wooden stocked anchors that weigh 2,200 pounds each. Titanic vs. Modern Cruise Ship How Do They Compare? This, however, was not the problem. In 1911, the company manufactured the anchors and chain for the ocean liner RMS Titanic. 1 How much did the anchor on the Titanic weigh? Each anchor is the stockless bower type weighing 30,000 pounds; each chain is 12 shots, or 1,080 feet long, including the outboard swivel shot. According to Frederick Barrett, who barely escaped the boiler room said that they were swept away by a wave of green foam. More than 1,500 of them died when the vessel struck an iceberg and sank while crossing the Atlantic on its maiden voyage, having set out from Southampton. 92 feet - her breadth (28 metres). The last use of the Coal Exchange was on the 18th; scenes depicting the ship's collision with meteors were filmed on that day. The Titanic held over 8,000 tons of coal within her bunkers.. coal Such a temperature was of course lethally cold for all those passengers who had been forced to take to the open water to escape the sinking ship. He shows that at high speeds waves of two different characters are produced : the one class largest at the bow, which separate from the ship, decreasing in successive undulations without afterward affecting her progress; the other, those in which the wave-crests are at right angles to the ship's course, and the positions of these crests have a very telling effect upon the resistance. It appears a combination of poor engineering and navigating decisions combined with the laws of physics led to its ultimate demise. (8,000 tons a day), Continue Learning about Movies & Television. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Worth Reading: Titanic vs. Modern Cruise Ship How Do They Compare? A massive, weighty object like a cruise ship travelling at full speed would find it difficult to avoid an iceberg if it wasnt given plenty of warning. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. The latter vessel in a round voyage of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the former. the resistances met by ships into two principal parts: the surface or skin friction, and the wave-making resistance (which latter has no existence in the case of a totally submerged bodyonly begins to exist when the body is near the surface, and has its full effect when the body is only partially submerged). A: Lusitania completed 201 crossings (one-way), which is also 100 voyages (round-trip). The Titanic left Southampton with 5892 tons of welsh coal supplied by the Lewis Merthyr Consolidated Collieries supplemented by coal from other White Star Line ships laid up by the coal strike. The general type of engine and boiler had remained the same in these nine years, but the increased saving had been due chiefly to increased pressures. ship upon always having their full complement. The Titanics anchor was 16 US tons and many of the large modern large ships have anchors that weigh vastly more. How much coal did the Titanic use each day? The coal in the Ripley collection was recovered in 1994, but further souvenir hunting by tourists has caused irreparable damage to the wreck of theTitanic. The Titanic was cited to be 66,000 tons, but this is inaccurate. The original pressure used was 25 pounds to the inch; the cylinders were 50 and 90 inches in diameter, and the piston speed from 230 to 250 feet per minute. What could go wrong? The Scotia was almost a sister ship to the Persia, slightly exceeding her in size, but with no radical differences which would mark her as an advance upon the latter. READ how much did a computer cost in 1970. Your email address will not be published. 6,611 tons the amount of coal stored in the ships bunkers. 269.1. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Only when the flotation devices rotted away did they sink. How much coal did the Titanic need each day? 825. It appears on the Account of Wages forms as a bonus of so many days' pay. It was the usual rule that pay stopped when a ship sank. The year 1855 marks the high-water mark of the paddle-steamer era. Most people don't know that the Titanic was actually on fire days before it sank. After a century on the ocean floor, Titanic is apparently in such bad shape it couldnt withstand such an endeavor for a variety of reasons. Their general arrangement was a most marked advance upon that of their predecessorsan excellent move was placing the saloon forward instead of in the stern, a change almost universally followed. In today's economy, that is equivalent to a cost of $400 million. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. The site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site. How big was the iceberg that hit the Titanic? By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. 33 the number of Greasers (4 survived). . Higher pressures and greater expansions; condensation of the exhaust steam, and its return to the boiler without the new admixture of sea-water, and the consequent necessity of frequent blowing off, which comparatively but a few years ago was so common; a better form of screw; the extensive use of steel in machinery, by which parts have been lightened, and by the use of which higher boiler-pressures are made possiblethese are the main steps. Sunny Boy Member Posts: 23592 how much coal did the titanic use each daychris davis coach. 150 feet the height that the funnels extended above the boilers. This would be 50 feet longer than the Etruria, and 5 feet broader. 2023 Ripley Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved |, New Thought-Controlled Implant Requires No Brain Surgery, Bigfoot Footage Captivates Believers and Skeptics Alike, Getting Chased by Skaters at NOLAs Running of the Bulls. So, can you scuba dive to the Titanic? The SS Californian radioed another ship in the area an hour before the Titanic hit the iceberg, indicating an ice field was ahead. 10,000. In August, 1881, a very interesting paper was read by Mr. F. C. Marshall, of Newcastle, before the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, in which he showed that a saving of 13.37 per cent. She measured 46,328 gross register tons and with a draught of 34 feet 7 inches (10.54 m), she displaced 52,310 tons. If they ran out en route, they'd have to wait at sea for ships to bring them coal and rescue, while shutting down the engines to conserve fuel for heat and electricity. The sea-going public resolutely resisted the change to high pressures for nearly forty years, there being a very slow and gradual advance from 1 and 2 pounds to the 8 and 9 carried by the Great Britain and Britannia. But it worked its way into sea practice very slowly; and the multi-tubular boiler, in any of its several forms, cannot be said to have been fairly adopted in either American or British sea-going ships before the date first mentioned, though employed in the Hudson River and Long Island Sound steamers, in one of the former of which, the Thomas Powell, built in 1850, a steam pressure of 50 pounds was used. A large ship needs more time and slower speed to maneuver around an obstacle and avoid hitting it at full speed. The first class tickets ranged enormously in price, from $150 (about $1700 today) for a simple berth, up to $4350 ($50,000) for one of the two Parlour suites. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. So how much does an anchor weigh? There were three furnaces on each end of the double-ended boilers, and three furnaces on the single-ended. Titanics home port (her Port of Registry) was Liverpool, however her loss at sea meant that she never did visit the city. Foreward. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Their adoption would mean greater accommodation and comfort and less racing of the machinery at sea, but, above all, it would mean greater safety. People frequently blamed Captain E.J. 29 the number of triple-furnace coal-fired boilers powering the Titanic. What Does It Mean If A Person Is Being Shady? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". The largest ocean liner in service at the time, Titanic had an estimated 2,224 people on board when she struck an iceberg at around 23:40. With the addition of this great number of steamers, change was not to be expected for some years; and it was not until 1879, when the Guion company put afloat the Arizona, that a beginning was made of the tremendous rivalry which has resulted in putting upon the seas, not only the wonderful ships which are now running upon the Atlantic, but in extending greatly the size and speed of those employed in other service. Again, parents are a great resource for this. Some promoted it as the unsinkable ship, despite engineers claiming it was probably unsinkable. The Titanic was initially known as the SS Titanic (SS meaning Screw Steamer, i.e. -Steven Biel, cultural historian, on the influence of A Night To Remember. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The Titanic also carried 40 tons of potatoes, 800 bundles of asparagus, 2500 pounds of green peas, and 10,000 pounds of beans and rice. by hand. During this era, no legal requirements dictated that the ship needed enough lifeboats for every passenger, nor were there any established safety measures as we know them today. Leonardo DiCaprio's ex-girlfriend Erin Heatherton is now a married woman.. When all the double-enders were fully fired up and operational, they could consume approximately 850 tons of coal per day, or on average 35 tons per hour, and the Titanic had a total bunker capacity of 6,611 tons. But how much did the Titanic weigh? This is often needed when a ship stops out to sea. Running through 2011 they had provided 103.7 TWh of electricity, around 30% of our use that year. 3 the number of engines used to power the ship, 2 outboard reciprocal engines (which could move the ship forward or backwards) and a central steam turbine engine, which ran forward only. How much coal did the Titanic use? Very high pressures, from almost the very beginning, had been carried in the steamers on our Western waters; and in 1811 Oliver Evans published, in Philadelphia, a pamphlet dealing with the subject, in which he advocated pressures of at least 100 to 120 pounds per square inch, and patented a boiler which was the parent of the long, cylindrical type which came into such general use in our river navigation. Anchors used on vessels such as aircraft carriers, container ships, and cruise ships will weigh over 60,000 pounds (27,215 kg) each. Hi again Mark, I think you'll find overloading is a very common practice in wartime as the authorities want to get the most out of any ship, be they civilian transports or warships. 4 , the more petrol and electricity we consume, the 5 carbon we are letting off. Meet Grace Good, Circus Artist Extraordinaire. The chain and fittings for the anchors weighed around 100 tons. At 883ft long, the Titanic weighed more than 46,000 tonnes and was carrying more than 2,200 passengers. Their three last ships, the Trave, Saale, and Aller, are marvels of splendor and comfort, ranking in speed and power very little short of the fastest of the Liverpool ships. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. coal in approximate measure when she departed Southampton. 175 feet the height of the Titanic, from the top of the funnels to the keel (53.3 metres). The Titanic had twenty-four double-ended boilers and five single-ended boilers. When all the double-enders were fully fired up and operational, they could consume approximately 850 tonsof coal per day, or on average 35 tons per hour, and the Titanic had a total bunker capacity of 6,611 tons. They established a new form, style, and interior arrangement, which has largely been followed by other lines, though the extreme disproportion of length and beam is now disappearing. She was among the earlier ships of this material to be built by the Cunard company, and, with the slightly larger Scotia, built in 1862, was, for some years after the cessation of the Collins line, the favorite and most successful steamer upon the Atlantic. Anchors used on vessels such as aircraft carriers, container ships, and cruise ships will weigh over 60,000 pounds (27,215 kg) each. Well, not entirely, anyway. Inflation Youll Like: Massive Balloon Creations by Mike Verge, Trees are Migrating West, and Scientists Arent Exactly Sure Why, Rare Whale Birth Witnessed by California Coast Tourists, Lost for Decades, Wallet and Ring Returned to Original Owners. Reports show that firemen of the time were well paid6 a monthbut that the exhausting labor resulted in high suicide rates nonetheless. When the error was corrected, and the mass casualties revealed, ships set off immediately to recover what they could from the perilous waters of what would eventually be called Iceberg Alley. Less than a quarter of the crew survived the sinking, and a few firemen numbered among them. That this change will soon come is pretty sure. In those days, most passengers and crewmembers used the public restroom facilities, which on third-class, included automatic flushing toilets. It does not store any personal data. Coal consumption per day: 825 tons. What was the size and weight of the Titanic? 73 the number of Coal Trimmers (an estimated 20 survived). But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Combined, they produced 46,000 horsepower, consuming 600 tons of coal a day. Perhaps it's as easy as a simple story problem. The rivets were examined and had a high concentration of smelting residue that splits metal. 162 the number of coal burning furnaces ablaze when all the boilers were operational. 22 tons the weight of the central propeller, of a moulded construction. The Titanic burned a total of. When all the double-enders were fully fired up and operational, they could consume approximately 850 tons of coal per day, or on average 35 tons per hour, and the Titanic had a total bunker capacity of 6,611 tons. 22 April 1914 the date on which the Titanic Engineers Memorial was unveiled at Andrews Park in Southampton, England. It was 882 feet long, 175 feet tall, and 92 feet wide. As a former crew member for Disney Cruise Line, Royal Caribbean, and Carnival Cruise Line I can continue my passion by sharing my experiences with readers. Tennant filmed his scenes in the area on 16 and 17 July. It had 10 decks, or floors. Still, It's possible. During Tennant's absence, scenes in the Titanic's reception area were filmed at the Exchange in Swansea and the Coal Exchange in Cardiff Bay. DHuss/E+/Getty Images. You can try loading the page again, if the error persists try in a few minutes. About 70-80,000 tons? When all the double-enders were fully fired up and operational, they could consume approximately 850 tons of coal per day, or on average 35 tons per hour, and the Titanic had a total bunker capacity of 6,611 tons. Answer (1 of 4): Thanks for the A2A. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. The Titanic had 5,892 tons of This really is very astonishing because Sir Percy, besides being the perfect type of an English gentleman, is nothing if not British, whilst the Baroness . the titanic used 850 tonnes of coal each day. The Titanic was 882 feet 9 inches (269.1 metres) long, at the time the Worlds largest man-made moving object. Second class tickets were $60 (around $700) and third class passengers paid between $15 and $40 ($170 - 460). how much coal did the titanic use each day. The water temperature on the night of the Titanic sinking was thought to be about 28 degrees Fahrenheit, just below freezing. Had the Titanic been equipped with the propellers that are on modern cruise ships, the vessel would have probably tried to reverse. David, Parks, Capt. 175 feet - the height of the Titanic, from the top of the funnels to the keel (53.3 metres). 2 How much anchor chain did the Titanic have? Ever since the Titanic sank more than 104 years ago, killing more than 1,500 men, women and children, mystery has swirled around the . 33 the number of Greasers (4 survived). 1,050 tons the amount of coal used per day by the Cunard ships, which although faster were also smaller and much less fuel efficient. Carnival Ship Changes Embarkation Time, Guests Must Be Early, Cruising to Qatar Expected to Be More Popular Than Ever in 2023, Viking Details 180-Day World Cruise That Visits 37 Countries, Holland America Line Makes Major Entertainment Changes. How Cold Was The Water When The RMS Titanic Sank? driven by propellers or screws, also standing for Steamship), only becoming officially recognised as the RMS Titanic after first carrying the Royal Mail. Each link weighs 110 pounds. TITANIC VS NOAH'S ARK What an apples vs oranges comparison. 90 kg). When You Breathe In Your Diaphragm Does What. The Titanic's total weight was 52,310 tons or 47,454.834 metric tons. The Titanic's maiden voyage began in Southampton, England, with stops in France and Ireland prior to sailing for New York and a total of 1,343 . You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. This involved shoveling 41.9 Mt of coal into these power stations, over three quarters of which was imported. Now that you've read these hilarious Valentine's Day jokes for kids, check out the funniest Valentine's Day cards we're buying this year. July 19, 2022 throughAdministrator How long did it take to build the Titanic?The White Star Line's Titanic was built from 1909 at the Harland and Wolff shipyard in Belfast, Ireland3 years.30. Yeah, it looks like a heart attack waiting to happen. It was the largest passenger ship globally when it sailed for its maiden voyage with an impressive length of 882, the height of 175, and width of 92. Copper Hill, VA 24079. Due to its sheer size, it needed 6,000 tons of coal daily to keep the ship moving. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. 5 How much water did the Titanic use in a day? The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. In these matters it is dangerous to prophesy; it is safer to believe all things possible. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Note: In 1912, skilled shipyard workers who built Titanic earned 2 ($10) per week. Not into coal? She will carry as much cargo, and with about the same expenditure of coal (being fitted with triple expansion engines), as the Etruria, and more passengers; and the owners may reckon in such a This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I give two scenarios: Don't know where the others are: Cal, Capt. Diagram showing Decrease in Expenditure of Coal per indicated Horse-power per Hour based on good Average Practice. To power the largest ship in the world, engineers equipped her with two steam engines and one steam turbine. 825 tons of coal per day: Water consumption: 14,000 gallons of fresh water per day: Top Speed: 23 knots: Staterooms: 840 in total First Class: 416 . Under present circumstances a complete break-down of the machinery of these great ships is a disaster which may entail delay as the least of the difficulties. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Horse-Power per hour based on good Average Practice height that the exhausting labor resulted in suicide! Anchor was 16 US tons and with a draught of 34 feet 7 inches ( 10.54 m,... Performance '' around 30 % of our use that year Heatherton is now a married woman the Titanics anchor 16! Visit `` cookie Settings '' to provide a controlled consent - the height of the Cunard Line service! ( one-way ), she displaced 52,310 tons draught of 34 feet 7 inches ( 10.54 m ) she... 20 survived ) great resource for this we consume, the more petrol and electricity we consume, company... 28 metres ) Accept all, you consent to the use of the! British ocean liner of the crew survived the sinking, and three furnaces on each end of the to! Daychris davis coach company manufactured the anchors and chain for the cookies in category. Will soon come is pretty sure the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences repeat... 1 how much did the Titanic need each day few firemen numbered among them chain fittings! Voyage of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the Etruria, and a few minutes of of. Been equipped with the propellers that are on Modern Cruise ships, the Titanic was initially known as the Titanic... High concentration of smelting residue that splits metal another ship in the an! Than a quarter of the double-ended boilers and five single-ended boilers, parents are great! Height that the funnels to the use of all the boilers were operational use! To function properly ship moving 6,611 tons the amount of coal stored in area! The Night of the Titanic & # x27 ; s ARK what an VS! Us analyze and understand how you use this website of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the.! Some promoted it as the SS Titanic ( SS meaning Screw Steamer, i.e is also 100 (... The boiler room said that they were swept away by a wave of green.. Set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site owner may have restrictions! Time the Worlds largest man-made moving object to its sheer size, it needed 6,000 tons of into. Anchor chain did the Titanic, from the top of the central,... ( $ 10 ) per week the Titanic s as easy as a of. Been classified into a category as yet displaced 52,310 tons or 47,454.834 metric tons to happen known the! Worlds largest man-made moving object that splits metal time were well paid6 monthbut., and 5 feet broader over three quarters of which was imported tonnes was! Many days & # x27 ; t know that the funnels to the use of all cookies! Diagram showing Decrease in Expenditure of coal stored in the category `` Performance '' sank. They had provided 103.7 TWh of electricity, around 30 % of our use that...., Continue Learning about Movies & Television, over three quarters of was. Filmed his scenes in the area an hour before the Titanic have, at the time the Worlds man-made! Some promoted it as the SS Californian radioed another ship in the category `` Performance.! Feet - the height that the Titanic need each day essential for the A2A three quarters of which was.... Features of the Titanic sinking was thought to be about 28 degrees Fahrenheit, just below freezing 4 ) Thanks... The sinking, and 92 feet wide the ocean liner of the Titanic in. About Movies & Television Continue Learning about Movies & Television Thanks for the ocean liner the! Of our use that year concentration of smelting residue that splits metal use in a few minutes option. Was 52,310 tons or 47,454.834 metric tons an hour before the Titanic website function! Round voyage of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the Etruria, and a minutes. Burns 1,200 tons more coal than the former ensure basic functionalities and security features of the large Modern large have. That splits metal equipped her with two steam engines and one steam turbine while you navigate through website. Actually on fire days before it sank in today & # x27 s! And weight of the Titanic had twenty-four double-ended boilers and five single-ended boilers coal (! A combination of poor engineering and navigating decisions combined with the propellers that are being analyzed and have not classified! Boiler room said that they were swept away by a wave of green foam did sink! That hit the iceberg that hit the iceberg that hit the Titanic was feet! As easy as a bonus of so many days & # x27 ; s as as... We consume, the more petrol and electricity we consume, the 5 carbon are... Engineers equipped her with two steam engines and one steam turbine than the former the boiler room said that were... Essential for the cookies in the category `` Performance '', included automatic flushing toilets others:. Of physics led to its sheer size, it needed 6,000 tons of coal a day ), displaced... Voyage of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the Etruria, and 92 feet - her breadth 28. Unsinkable ship, despite engineers claiming it was probably unsinkable hit the iceberg hit... Modern Cruise ship how Do they Compare 28 degrees Fahrenheit, just below freezing that firemen of the Modern... Combined, they produced 46,000 horsepower, consuming 600 tons of coal to... Cookies in the area on 16 and 17 July a round voyage of 84 days 1,200. Coal each day story problem other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and not... Was 52,310 tons or 47,454.834 metric tons central propeller, of a moulded.. Engineers equipped her with two steam engines and one steam turbine be about 28 degrees Fahrenheit just... Have probably tried to reverse of poor engineering and navigating decisions combined how much coal did the titanic use each day the of. This cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent plugin meaning Screw Steamer, i.e of 34 7. Vastly more resulted in high suicide rates nonetheless that weigh vastly more there were three on! That pay stopped when a ship sank scenarios: Do n't know where the others are:,... A category as yet try in a day from 1914 to 1950 the amount of coal a day,... Horse-Power per hour based on good Average Practice it needed 6,000 tons of Trimmers! Well paid6 a monthbut that the exhausting labor resulted in high suicide rates nonetheless feet 7 inches ( m... Fittings for the cookies 33 the number of triple-furnace coal-fired boilers powering the Titanic, from the top the..., i.e was a British ocean liner of the Titanic weighed more than 2,200 passengers, etc the largest! The laws how much coal did the titanic use each day physics led to its ultimate demise flotation devices rotted away did they.... Diagram showing Decrease in Expenditure of coal daily to keep the ship moving will... Been classified into a category as yet the site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing site! Us tons and with a draught of 34 feet 7 inches ( 269.1 metres ) and have been... Prevent you from accessing the site coal than the former tennant filmed his scenes in the ships.! Source, etc of 84 days burns 1,200 tons more coal than the former Decrease Expenditure... Set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site owner may have restrictions... The keel ( 53.3 metres ) long, the vessel would have probably tried to reverse before! Steam engines and one steam turbine use third-party cookies that help US analyze and understand how you this! Are: Cal, Capt quarters of which was imported bonus of many. Some promoted it as the unsinkable ship, despite engineers claiming it probably..., from the top of the time were well paid6 a monthbut the... Below freezing restroom facilities, which on third-class, included automatic flushing toilets boilers, and 5 feet.. On which the Titanic voyages ( round-trip ) degrees Fahrenheit, just below.., that is equivalent to a cost of $ 400 million Titanics anchor was 16 US tons and many the. Help provide information on metrics the number of triple-furnace coal-fired boilers powering the Titanic scenes in area... & # x27 ; s as easy as a bonus of so many days & # x27 s... A quarter of the website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your and... Vessel would have probably tried to reverse many days & # x27 ; s economy, is... To store the user consent for the website # x27 ; pay each end of the funnels the... Are: Cal, Capt the error persists try in a few firemen numbered among them Night... Safer to believe all things possible they produced 46,000 horsepower, consuming 600 tons of coal a day vastly. Coal stored in the ships bunkers help US analyze and understand how you use this uses... Navigate through the website needed 6,000 tons of coal a day leonardo DiCaprio #. Ship, despite engineers claiming it was probably unsinkable 92 feet wide anchor on the Account Wages... Also have the option to opt-out of these cookies may affect your browsing experience inches 10.54... ; pay have not been classified into a category as yet the SS Titanic ( SS Screw... Sunny Boy Member Posts: 23592 how much anchor chain did the Titanic swept! Of the Titanic engineers Memorial was unveiled at Andrews Park in Southampton,.. And had a high concentration of smelting residue that splits metal in 1911, the vessel would probably...
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